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Question re "ERASER" 1484 RESTORATION
David Ringsmuth

I have enjoyed the pictures/information shared in re the restoration of “ERASER” #1484. I have some specific questions I would like to ask the owners/restorers. One, for instance, is “What type/model/mfg/size..were the deck plates used on the aft deck?”. If you could share that information, via this Forum,  and/or could/would contact me directly, I would appreciate it greatly.

           David

            / “EMERITUS”/ #1144 & “SABBATICAL”/ #1569 at  .. david.ringsmuth@csun.edu

  DAVID C. RINGSMUTH

Ryan Brenenstuhl

Hi David. I, too, have been studying this restoration. In one of his CAD drawings there’s a hard to see call-out for the part he used. They are made by Beckson and the link to the specific model is here:

https://www.becksondirect.com/product/dp64-w/


I can’t remember if I’m mixing up different resources I’ve found online or what but I could have sworn that I read a detailed write up of the restoration process that went along with the photos- more than just the short captions that accompany some of the photos in the album here on this site. Can anyone confirm this and, if so, point me to that link? Thanks in advance.

Edward Rose
Hi,
 
This is Ed and am owned by the Ensign 22 #1484 referenced here! The boat is still in restoration mode, having been delayed by real life. I'm now building a new boat shop up in Washington and expect to have Eraser back on the water sometime next year.
 
The Beckson deck plate link is correct. I have four of the 6 inch in the aft deck and in the rudder post bulkhead and one 8 inch on the bow. All are very easy to use and do not leak.
 
As to the photos on the Ensign Class Association site, most of the back-story I had written on the old Yahoo site was lost when the transfer took place. I had planned to re-create that narrative, but decided to just do captions...and still working on those! At one time, I had a high-res PDF of my CAD drawings on Yahoo but don't know if they made the trip to the new site, so i include it here.
 
Hope this helps!
Ed
 
In a message dated 2/15/2021 6:24:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Ryan Brenenstuhl on 2/15/2021 at 6:24 PM
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Hi David. I, too, have been studying this restoration. In one of his CAD drawings there’s a hard to see call-out for the part he used. They are made by Beckson and the link to the specific model is here:

https://www.becksondirect.com/product/dp64-w/

 

I can’t remember if I’m mixing up different resources I’ve found online or what but I could have sworn that I read a detailed write up of the restoration process that went along with the photos- more than just the short captions that accompany some of the photos in the album here on this site. Can anyone confirm this and, if so, point me to that link? Thanks in advance.

Vic Roberts

Ed,

 

I downloaded all the messages and photos from the EnsignSailors Yahoo Group before we closed it down. I thought we had posted the EnsignSailors message thread here in the new website, but cannot currently locate it. (I do, however, have the messages on my own computer.)  More importantly, I have 137 images files, a combination of your drawings and photos, related to the restoration of #1484.  I will get these posted today.

 

Vic Roberts

#2032, Journey

 

Vic Roberts

Ed,

 

There are actually 149 image files. 137 photos and 12 drawings.  They are all posted in the Photos Album section of the ECA website.  

 

If you send me high resolution drawing files, I can post them in the Documents section of the website, and we can create a page on the website dedicated to your restoration project, with links to the photos and drawings.

 

Vic Roberts

 

Vic Roberts

Well, this is embarrassing. I now see that I had already posted the Eraser restoration image files as a photo album back in May of 2020, and that set has 160 files! I will delete the latest album, leaving the original.

 

My offer still stands to post the high resolution drawing files and to create a custom page on the website dedicated to your project.

 

Vic Roberts

 

Edward Rose
Hello Vic !
 
Sorry you had to go through all that !  Yes: I have been working to update and caption the photos you brought over from Yahoo... As noted, the jpeg's in the album are low-res and are meant to be placeholders for the separate, high-res PDF's of my CAD drawings. I attach here two, high-res composite PDF's of those CAD drawings for general reference. I don't need a custom page just for the drawings, maybe just stash them behind the Library / Boat maintenance and Repair tab?
 
BTW: the " Rebuilding the Ensign Interior by Bud Brown" document is amazing !  My hat's off to Bud for a well written and thorough presentation of his restoration project. I read it twice last night and it kicked my brain into thinking of what I may have missed in my own (ongoing) restoration. Thank You Bud !!
 
Vic; Thanks again for all you do for us here!
 
Ed
 
 
In a message dated 2/16/2021 5:30:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Victor Roberts on 2/16/2021 at 5:29 AM
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Well, this is embarrassing. I now see that I had already posted the Eraser restoration image files as a photo album back in May of 2020, and that set has 160 files! I will delete the latest album, leaving the original.

 

My offer still stands to post the high resolution drawing files and to create a custom page on the website dedicated to your project.

 

Vic Roberts

 

Vic Roberts

The two high resolution files kindly provided by Ed have been added to the Library section of the ECA website.  Look under Library/Boat Maintenance and Repairs. 

 

There are three links: one for photos, a second for the deck hardware and a third for the electrical schematics.

 

In the near future I will make a custom page for all the #1484 restoration information, so we will have only one link from the Library.  We will also most likely limit access of the high resolution drawings to members of the ECA.

 

Vic Roberts

 

James Knape

Nice job. Your efforts are appreciated by many



On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote:
Posted by: Victor Roberts on 2/16/2021 at 7:23 AM
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Ed,

 

There are actually 149 image files. 137 photos and 12 drawings.  They are all posted in the Photos Album section of the ECA website.  

 

If you send me high resolution drawing files, I can post them in the Documents section of the website, and we can create a page on the website dedicated to your restoration project, with links to the photos and drawings.

 

Vic Roberts

 

David Ringsmuth

THANKS !! to all who have provided information in re this POST, with special appreciation to Ed Rose for the fantastic detailed drawings and pictures, and to Vic Roberts for facilitating providing the materials to the ECA platform.

One additional question I have, for Ed,  relates to the “Green Material” used for various purposes in the project. Is it “G10 and FR4 glass cloth reinforced epoxy..” in some form/size… or something else? If you could provide any information in that regard, and or sources for it,  I would appreciate it.  And if that information was already included in the drawings/plans/pics, and I missed it I apologize in advance.

   With appreciation.

          Sincerely,

                                 David

            / “EMERITUS”/ #1144 & “SABBATICAL”/ #1569 at  .. david.ringsmuth@csun.edu

Edward Rose
Hello David,
 
Seriously? You're owned by TWO Ensigns?!! You're a brave man...   :-)
 
The material you reference is G10-FR4. It's fiberglass infused with epoxy resin, usually sold in sheets and is available in multiple thicknesses and sheet sizes. I use it in projects on my boat and like it for it's strength and fondness for bonding well with it's brethren  :-)  ...
 
One caveat: While FR4 is excellent and proven for backing plates, I have not sea tested any of the brackets I've made of FR4, only done static pull and twist tests. When I get my boat back out on the water next year, I suspect things will hold together just fine, but you never know! You guys will be the second to know how they perform.
 
 
Thanks,
Ed
"Eraser" #1484 (that's for you, Vic! :-)
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/18/2021 7:10:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: David C Ringsmuth on 2/18/2021 at 7:09 AM
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THANKS !! to all who have provided information in re this POST, with special appreciation to Ed Rose for the fantastic detailed drawings and pictures, and to Vic Roberts for facilitating providing the materials to the ECA platform.

One additional question I have, for Ed,  relates to the “Green Material” used for various purposes in the project. Is it “G10 and FR4 glass cloth reinforced epoxy..” in some form/size… or something else? If you could provide any information in that regard, and or sources for it,  I would appreciate it.  And if that information was already included in the drawings/plans/pics, and I missed it I apologize in advance.

   With appreciation.

          Sincerely,

                                 David

            / “EMERITUS”/ #1144 & “SABBATICAL”/ #1569 at  .. david.ringsmuth@csun.edu

Kristen Standish

Hi

Do you have the details concerning the nuts, bolts and backing plates you used for the cabin top hardware?

Thanks for your help.

K

Edward Rose
Hi K,
 
Yes; I get my stainless steel black oxide fasteners from Fastener Express and most of my other fasteners from Bolt Depot. I make all my backing plates from G10 FR4 glass epoxy sheet. I bed all deck hardware, deck plates and indeed anything that fastens to the boat using butyl tape.
 
 
Hope that helps!
Ed
 
In a message dated 7/1/2021 10:13:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Kristen Standish on 7/1/2021 at 10:13 AM
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Hi

Do you have the details concerning the nuts, bolts and backing plates you used for the cabin top hardware?

Thanks for your help.

K

Kristen Standish

Fantastic! I guess my last question would be: do you have the specs for the nuts and bolts you used?

Kristen Standish

... and the length of line required for each one of your block assemblies? We are just going to copy your set up in hopes that it is a fleet-wide reference....

Kristen Standish

Could your cunningham block and tackle be used for the jib halyard tension set up?

Kristen Standish

Can I call you ? I am on 617 571 4854.

Edward Rose
Hi Kristen,
 
That would be nice, but I really don't have the time to talk. We're taking care of a family member that requires our undivided attention. It has been a pleasure trying to remember what I did during the restoration of my own boat, but unpickling the boat or unboxing all the parts to find what kind of fasteners or hardware I used is quite beyond me for now.
 
I'm sure there are many other active Ensign sailors who would love to help you out!
 
Best,
Ed
 
In a message dated 7/2/2021 11:05:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Kristen Standish on 7/2/2021 at 11:05 AM
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Can I call you ? I am on 617 571 4854.

Vic Roberts

Kristen,


Here is more information about the jib halyard tensioner used on #2032. I will try to get a better photo of the cheek block, photo #5, later today.


Harken 57mm Cheek Block, Part No. 2606

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/carbo-air-blocks-289/57-mm-cheek-block


Harken 40mm Carbo Air Swivel Block, Part No. 2636

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/carbo-air-blocks-289/40-mm-block-swivel/


Harken 22 mm Triple Block, Part No. 228

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/micro-287/22-mm-triple-block/


Harken 22 mm Triple Block with Beckett, Part No. 229

https://www.harken.com/en/shop/micro-287/22-mm-triple-block-becket/


1/4 inch line used in the tensioner.


Jib Halyard is 5/16 inch line


Vic Roberts

#2032



Edward Rose
Hi Kristen,
 
First, let me say I have only sailed my boat in the configuration depicted in my sketches a few times and have found my design choices to  be largely satisfactory. I planned, then installed all the jewelry then sailed it for 2 months (in patchy primer!) to test out all my designs and choices. I then disassembled the boat to prepare for any changes and final finishing. Things got sidetracked by life and the boat is currently pickled and waiting for a new shop to be built.
 
So, would I use the Cunningham set-up in place of the Jib Halyard tensioning? No...I wouldn't...
 
I did extensive research into how to replace the Magic Box so many have used, but is no longer available. The design I settled on works well enough, so I have no plans to make any changes. If you race, you'll want the set-up that gives you the same degree of adjustment the old MB provided. The set-up I use for tensioning the Cunningham is crude by comparison, so, IMHO, is not suitable for the Jib Halyard.
 
Ed 
 
In a message dated 7/2/2021 10:18:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Kristen Standish on 7/2/2021 at 10:16 AM
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Could your cunningham block and tackle be used for the jib halyard tension set up?

Vic Roberts

Ed & Kristen,

 

When I received #2032 from Ensign Spars in 2014, it had the Jib Halyard tensioning system shown in the attached photo, which seems to be the same design used by you, Ed.

 

I can get better photos and perhaps model numbers for the two triple blocks and one single block on Sunday.

 

Vic Roberts

#2032

 

Edward Rose
Hi Vic!
 
Yes: your design was part of my inspiration! 
 
Ed
 
In a message dated 7/2/2021 4:49:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Victor Roberts on 7/2/2021 at 4:48 PM
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Ed & Kristen,

 

When I received #2032 from Ensign Spars in 2014, it had the Jib Halyard tensioning system shown in the attached photo, which seems to be the same design used by you, Ed.

 

I can get better photos and perhaps model numbers for the two triple blocks and one single block on Sunday.

 

Vic Roberts

#2032

 


Attachment(s):
IMG_1587.JPG (3.6 MB)
Edward Rose
Hi Kristen,
 
Ooohhh... This one is easy... Buy your lines from Ensign Spars! I found everything I needed at: https://shop.ensignspars.com/pages/sailboat-rigging 
 
Ed  :-)
 
In a message dated 7/2/2021 9:56:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Kristen Standish on 7/2/2021 at 9:56 AM
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... and the length of line required for each one of your block assemblies? We are just going to copy your set up in hopes that it is a fleet-wide reference....

Edward Rose
Hello Kristen,
 
First, let me say that no, I cannot tell you specifically what fasteners I used for the cabin top controls or for any other hardware. The sketches I put together and published simply document what I installed on my boat and, as you have already surmised, does not specify preparation of components or assembly instructions. Since I am only restoring one boat, there is no need to document to that level of detail. The good folks at Ensign Spars (past and present) would be a good source of specific information if you can't figure it out on your own. I believe the only person I asked about fasteners was Chad (formerly of Ensign Spars) about what size rivet to use when re-attaching the Sheer Clamp (3/16 X 1/2 every 6 inches for a total of 124 !!).  
 
What I can offer is, I used best practices for fastening deck equipment as garnered through experience, asking more experienced heads (as you are doing), the many good books written about restoring boats and Google! Best practice here includes; how to prepare the structure you're mounting to, diameter hole to drill and bevel for any given fastener, number and type of washers, type of nut, thread lock, thickness of backing plate, sealant, dissimilar metals treatment, how many threads to leave showing and recommended tightening for the application.
 
During the planning for my boat's restoration, I built-up a fastener inventory by accounting for all the manufacturer recommended fastener diameter sizes, then determined the most common thread count that accommodated the widest range of lengths for that particular fastener as offered by the supplier and then purchased my best-guess lengths in batches of 10-to-100 depending on use.
 
As an example, I settled on 10-32's for all my #10's in both Black Oxide and plain finish. I settled on the 18-8 grade whenever I could find it and have a variety of lengths, ranging from 3/4" all the way up to 2-1/2". I think I used 5 different #10 lengths to account for all the different hardware mounted all over the boat. In the case of the Harken 459's, I had to use at least 2 different bolt lengths due to variation in the cabin top thickness on my boat. 
 
Sorry I couldn't offer more help...you'll have to do your own study and revel in the experience!
 
Ed 
 
 
In a message dated 7/2/2021 9:49:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Kristen Standish on 7/2/2021 at 9:49 AM
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Fantastic! I guess my last question would be: do you have the specs for the nuts and bolts you used?

Gay De Hart

I was wondering if you think the Beckson Deck Plates are the only way to go or would the West Marine equivalent work just as well?

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--6-screw-in-deck-plate--11743036


After shipping, the Beckson are a bit more expensive and I have a local West Marine I can go to so don't pay shipping.


Ronald Wright
I added two of those, from WM, the four-inch variety, to the stern so I could access traveler hardware. I was very satisfied. Be sure to order the correct holesaw. A round Holesaw mounted on an electric drill gives a perfect size opening. Well worth the additional expense, even if you have a jigsaw already.

Sent from my iPhone

Edward Rose
I used a Dremel circle arm saw with a milling bit... Easy and clean!
 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2021 2:10:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Ronald K Wright on 5/18/2021 at 2:08 PM
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I added two of those, from WM, the four-inch variety, to the stern so I could access traveler hardware. I was very satisfied. Be sure to order the correct holesaw. A round Holesaw mounted on an electric drill gives a perfect size opening. Well worth the additional expense, even if you have a jigsaw already.

Sent from my iPhone
 
Edward Rose
Hello Gay,
 
It looks like the West Marine deck plate doesn't have the diamond non-skid molded-in like the Beckson. I love the Beckson plates and recommend them. If you go with the West Marine version, let us know what you think!
 
Ed
 
In a message dated 5/18/2021 2:02:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:
 
Posted by: Gay De Hart on 5/18/2021 at 2:00 PM
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I was wondering if you think the Beckson Deck Plates are the only way to go or would the West Marine equivalent work just as well?

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--6-screw-in-deck-plate--11743036

 

After shipping, the Beckson are a bit more expensive and I have a local West Marine I can go to so don't pay shipping.

 

Gay De Hart

I am planning to use one on the forward bulkhead, and one in the cabin seat,  to check on flotation so non-skid shouldn’t be an issue, but good to know the difference!
I’ll let you know how they work out.  

 

Ron and Ed—great tips on hole cutting. Thanks.
Gay

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