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Mast support

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Robert Brandt

3/18/2021 9:44 AM

I will be trailering an Ensign soon and need info on building a rear mast support. The Triad trailer I'm buying has a forward mast support but I need to provide the rear support. Can anyone give me dimensions or a drawing or a photo of what works?

Thanks.

Bud Brown

3/18/2021 9:55 AM

What is the height above deck that the mast would lie if it were level, with the forward half resting in the trailer support?

On Thursday, March 18, 2021, Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote:

Posted by: Robert Brandt on 3/18/2021 at 9:44 AM
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I will be trailering an Ensign soon and need info on building a rear mast support. The Triad trailer I'm buying has a forward mast support but I need to provide the rear support. Can anyone give me dimensions or a drawing or a photo of what works?

Thanks.

--
Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text
410.489.5426 home and office

Robert Brandt

3/18/2021 10:49 AM

The trailer's forward mast support cradle can adjust from level with the deck to three feet higher.

Fran Trapp

3/18/2021 12:34 PM

Hi Robert,

I also have a Triad trailer! Love it. Is your new or used? I have a photo of my mast support. I am going to try to attach it.

John Cutler

3/18/2021 1:28 PM

Robert

I will send you some photos later today for two different options.

John

PC ECA

#1029-the other woman

John and Paula Cutler

Edward Rose

3/18/2021 7:19 PM

Hi Bud!

I built a mast crutch that fits on the aft deck. It survived the trip from Denver to Seattle in good shape, so I guess I endorse it. :-) I added eye bolts (that don't show in the plans) on both faces to accommodate bungee tie-downs, which worked well. There are several photos of the assembly in the photo album of "1484 Eraser" on the Ensign Class Association web site: https://ensignclass.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=323935&module_id=250556

Perhaps the powers that be could add these Mast Crutch files to the library? Thanks!

Hope this helps!

Eraser 1484

In a message dated 3/18/2021 6:55:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

Bud Brown

3/18/2021 8:46 PM

Wow, Ed...

Nice drawings! I love the way you slipped the tow vehicle in there... Lol...

I believe it's important to emphasize the support's legs must have sufficient, perhaps even additional, clearance on the coaming boards to prevent scuffing and marring that beautiful finish.

The cockeyed legs to fit outside the coaming boards look funny, but that's precisely the way it has to be.

Having the mast support positioned over the trailer instead of with the straps/bungees angled so much might be a consideration.. but these plans look like they would work nicely!

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Edward Rose

3/19/2021 2:41 AM

Hi Bud!

Thanks! ...I modeled my SUV to ensure I had clearance to open the lift gate! (experience is a humorless teacher). I was also careful with clearances over the combings and tiller, so there haven't been any problems there. I should note I installed RivNuts in the side deck so the mast crutch feet bolt in place...nothing's going anywhere unless I say so!

You also mentioned the mast support... I guess you're talking about the one in front of the bow. That's the way Zeke designed the ensign trailer, so I wasn't going to argue with him, and if fact, the support works like a charm. Using it also made it unnecessary to build another support sitting on the foredeck. As to the hold down strap angles; they also work fine and kept the boat from sliding fore/aft for the move from Colorado to Washington State, so no complaints there!

I've attached a few more pics to help show the bolted feet and the final hold down strap angles. They were a little less severe than in the drawings because I moved the boat forward a few inches to get a better tongue weight.

Best Regards!

Eraser 1484

In a message dated 3/18/2021 5:47:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

Posted by: Bud Brown on 3/18/2021 at 5:46 PM
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Wow, Ed...

Nice drawings! I love the way you slipped the tow vehicle in there... Lol...

I believe it's important to emphasize the support's legs must have sufficient, perhaps even additional, clearance on the coaming boards to prevent scuffing and marring that beautiful finish.

The cockeyed legs to fit outside the coaming boards look funny, but that's precisely the way it has to be.

Having the mast support positioned over the trailer instead of with the straps/bungees angled so much might be a consideration.. but these plans look like they would work nicely!

--

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Bud Brown

3/19/2021 8:51 AM

Yep, clearance on the tiller is important as well. There are sometimes things that one discovers only after building something the first time! Tiller clearance on the crossbar is an issue.

Nice padding on the inside of the feet for the interface with the coaming boards...

RivNuts for bolting down the crossbar is something I would never have thought of... I hate drilling holes in my boat, and I don't like the idea of forcing the boat to absorb every twist and turn, bounce and jiggle along the way. Lorelei sits on her trailer with a lot of freedom and independence.

Love the idea of how the front trailer support eliminates the building of another deck-mounted crutch.

Your design is thoughtful and very, very good! I might even rebuild my own... (It's about time to do so...) The only alteration I might consider is a bit of an overhang on each side to prevent the strap from rubbing against the rubrail... Just go straight down to the trailer without touching the side of the boat at all. Do you have an opinion on that?

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Edward Rose

3/19/2021 2:23 PM

Hi Bud,

This is my second mast crutch; the first was a rebuild of the crutch designed and built by the original boat owner and was in use since the boat was new in 1973! My design built on his, so I take only partial credit.

I had thought about an overhang to get the straps away from the boat, but decided to spread the load by having the strap in contact with the crutch and draping over the rub rail, using slip-on pads as protection. For the next move, I'm going to change my bolted-design a bit by removing the rivnuts and potting-in a metal sleeve to take a 3/8 inch through-bolt, one,maybe two for each foot. A reinforcing pad glassed to the under deck with a beefy backing plate of G10-FR4 and appropriate fasteners will further spread the loads. I'll plug the hole when it's not in use with a threaded post and mushroom cap and gasket. I didn't see any damage to the threaded insert after the move to Seattle, but I like the idea of taking threads out of the load equation, so thought the solid bolt shaft on a sleeve a good piece-of-mind improvement for this "if it can move, bolt it down" kind of guy. :-)

I have to add that i tried using a cover on the boat for a few short moves and didn't like it. The mast crutch slid around with no good way to anchor it to the boat. For the big move, I ditched the cover, fastened the crutch to the side deck mid-span and used jib sheets run from the mast to the winches and cleats to dampen the mast's up 'n down movement. Worked like a charm.

All of the jack pads on the trailer and mast crutch feet are covered in socks I made from "boat blanket" fabric I bought from Sailrite. The stuff is bullet-proof and looks good as well. I used a hot knife and pneumatic stapler also bought from them..easy-peasy.

I have pics of the mast crutch build if you're interested.

Best regards,

In a message dated 3/19/2021 5:52:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

Posted by: Bud Brown on 3/19/2021 at 5:51 AM
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Yep, clearance on the tiller is important as well. There are sometimes things that one discovers only after building something the first time! Tiller clearance on the crossbar is an issue.

Nice padding on the inside of the feet for the interface with the coaming boards...

RivNuts for bolting down the crossbar is something I would never have thought of... I hate drilling holes in my boat, and I don't like the idea of forcing the boat to absorb every twist and turn, bounce and jiggle along the way. Lorelei sits on her trailer with a lot of freedom and independence.

Love the idea of how the front trailer support eliminates the building of another deck-mounted crutch.

Your design is thoughtful and very, very good! I might even rebuild my own... (It's about time to do so...) The only alteration I might consider is a bit of an overhang on each side to prevent the strap from rubbing against the rubrail... Just go straight down to the trailer without touching the side of the boat at all. What's your opinion on that?

--

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Edward Rose

3/19/2021 2:36 PM

Hi again!

Small grammatical correction...

"I have to add that I tried using a fitted cover on the boat for a few short moves and didn't like it. The mast crutch slid around with no good way to anchor it to the boat. For the big move, I ditched the cover, fastened the crutch to the side deck with the bolts then used jib sheets run from the mast to the winches and cleats that dampened the mast's up 'n down movement. Cleaning the bugs off the boat was easy and the design worked like a charm."

...pays to proof read. :-)

In a message dated 3/19/2021 5:52:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

Posted by: Bud Brown on 3/19/2021 at 5:51 AM
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Yep, clearance on the tiller is important as well. There are sometimes things that one discovers only after building something the first time! Tiller clearance on the crossbar is an issue.

Nice padding on the inside of the feet for the interface with the coaming boards...

RivNuts for bolting down the crossbar is something I would never have thought of... I hate drilling holes in my boat, and I don't like the idea of forcing the boat to absorb every twist and turn, bounce and jiggle along the way. Lorelei sits on her trailer with a lot of freedom and independence.

Love the idea of how the front trailer support eliminates the building of another deck-mounted crutch.

Your design is thoughtful and very, very good! I might even rebuild my own... (It's about time to do so...) The only alteration I might consider is a bit of an overhang on each side to prevent the strap from rubbing against the rubrail... Just go straight down to the trailer without touching the side of the boat at all. What's your opinion on that?

--

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Bud Brown

3/19/2021 11:08 PM

I've enjoyed this thread.

From milk crates to Ed's fabulous design, it's obvious that supporting the mast while trailering can be done using a number of different methods and configurations.

When I first bought Lorelei, I was fortunate to have Dean and Kay Snider share their thoughtful and road-proven travel gear design with me. Little Oil has won four National Championships, and last I counted, fifteen Region 4 Championships. Though I don't know in how many regattas they've actually competed, one can safely say it's more than a few.

So I just want to add a couple more thoughts about travel gear...

Whether you're going to be traveling a bit, or even just twice a year getting your boat into and out of storage, it might make a little sense to have travel gear that can be mounted and dismounted fairly quickly, intuitively and easily. If it's quick and easy, without a lot of strategic half hitches, special tie-downs and owner-proprietary methods, your crew can jump in and help. If the crew has no idea of what to do, or the order in which it's done, they might stand around wanting to help, but wondering how they can. An intuitive system, with dedicated snaps, hooks and pre-configured line lengths makes it possible for others to help in rigging and de-rigging the boat. The more obvious and easier it is, the more likely others can effectively help.

Having your mast up in about an hour after rolling into a destination is a nice goal. Same with the de-stepping process.

Next, someone's gonna ask about the best design for a gin-pole...

Best regards,

Bud Brown

281.468.6909 cell and text

410.489.5426 home and office

Vic Roberts

3/18/2021 8:48 PM

Ed,

I will add these to the Library.

Vic Roberts

Edward Rose

3/19/2021 2:41 AM

Thanks Vic!

In a message dated 3/18/2021 5:50:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

Posted by: Victor Roberts on 3/18/2021 at 5:48 PM
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Ed,

I will add these to the Library.

Vic Roberts

Anthony Cannone

4/19/2024 8:18 AM

Hi Vic,

Can you please tell me where the Mast Support drawing is located in the Library?

I could not find it.

Thank you,

Tony Cannone

Vic Roberts

4/19/2024 8:30 AM

Tony,

I don’t understand what you mean by Mast Support. Do you mean the mast step or something else.

Vic

Edward Rose

4/19/2024 1:04 PM

Hi Guys,

Are you looking for the mast support I built for my boat? I don't believe the drawings are in the Ensign archives, so here ya go!

#1484 Eraser

In a message dated 4/19/2024 5:29:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

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Tony,

I don’t understand what you mean by Mast Support. Do you mean the mast step or something else.

Vic

Anthony Cannone

4/20/2024 7:03 AM

Yes, I found the "Mast Crutch" info. in the ECA Library under the 1484 ERASER Restoration photo's link.

Thank you for the attachment as well. I am impressed with the professional documentation!

Tony Cannone

Ensign 530

Symantha Gates

4/20/2024 7:30 AM

Oh I like these ! Well done. We had a set of wooden saw horses made for winter storage to keep the rigging stable and off the deck. The fore saw horse is slightly taller than the aft one to allow for better water/snowmelt drainage off the tarp. This reminds me of those.

In this design, what do the gray side blocks attach to ? (I assume they attach to something for the motion during driving but just not getting how it works from the photo.)

Though I am not a big fan of plastic, has anyone tried to 3-D print these?

-Symantha

Edward Rose

4/20/2024 2:53 PM

Hello Symantha,

I call the grey side blocks "feet"! ... They are through-bolted to the side deck with one, 5/16" carriage bolt and fender washer plus underside washer, lock washer and nut in each foot. This setup made the move from Denver, Colorado to Poulsbo, Washington in fine shape, so it works! You can see the bolts and washers in the attached photo. I will be making removable plugs for the holes out of G-10 when I get back to Eraser's restoration!

Hope this helps,

In a message dated 4/20/2024 4:32:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

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Oh I like these ! Well done. We had a set of wooden saw horses made for winter storage to keep the rigging stable and off the deck. The fore saw horse is slightly taller than the aft one to allow for better water/snowmelt drainage off the tarp. This reminds me of those.

In this design, what do the gray side blocks attach to ? (I assume they attach to something for the motion during driving but just not getting how it works from the photo.)

Though I am not a big fan of plastic, has anyone tried to 3-D print these?

-Symantha

Edward Rose

4/20/2024 2:31 PM

Glad to help :-)

In a message dated 4/20/2024 4:03:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ensignsailing@ensignclass.com writes:

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Yes, I found the "Mast Crutch" info. in the ECA Library under the 1484 ERASER Restoration photo's link.

Thank you for the attachment as well. I am impressed with the professional documentation!

Tony Cannone

Ensign 530

Jonathan Simpson

3/19/2021 9:26 AM

If you don't want to build a permanent crutch that you then have to store, I have a different solution. I use a milk crate, overturned. I tie the mast to and through the crate to the aft deck cleats. If you want padding in-between, add a scrap piece of carpet or packing foam.

I have done this for more than a dozen trips with no movement or damage. And the crate is useful for storing extra parts when not trailering!

Jon Simpson

Ensign 160

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Bud Brown

3/19/2021 9:46 AM

A simple, efficient solution, Jon.

Robert Brandt

3/19/2021 11:32 AM

Wow, thanks to all for your input, drawings, photos, and ideas.

Fran, my Triad trailer is a new one that should be ready to pick up in a week or so.

James Knape

3/19/2021 11:36 AM

I use the same milk crate holder for my aft mast holder. Does not affect gel coat, but might scratch pAinted decks. I use spin sheets as tie downs wrapped around mast and though milk crate. Never had a problem, but I make sure spin sheets are secured around winches and knotted rather than in cam cleats. Probably 10,000 miles with out issue

On Friday, March 19, 2021 Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote:

Posted by: Jonathan H Simpson on 3/19/2021 at 8:26 AM
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I have done this for more than a dozen trips with no movement or damage. And the crate is useful for storing extra parts when not trailering!

Jon Simpson

Ensign 160

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