Can anyone help me with sourcing lifting eye nuts for the lifting rods in Ensign Classic boats hull no.'s > 2000 ?

I remember a discussion in the old forum on the issues of using the rods in Pearson OEM hulls which were not suitable for lifting, but I believe the Ensign Classics are set up for the lifting eye nuts.

Any help would be appreciated.

James Bland
Ensign 2021, SPIRIT
Austin Yacht Club, Fleet 30
USNA class of '78

James,

There are two places on the website where you can find a discussion of lifting eyes.

First, under Library --> Technical you will find a link titled: Lifting Eyes for Pearson Ensign, which opens an excellent article by Bill Murphey, but that is for older boats.

Second, under Library --> Boat Maintenance and Repairs I have just added the lifting eye discussion from the Ensign Sailors discussion group that you referred to. The link will open a PDF that has all 15 messages posted in that thread. These are unedited, and, therefore contain some repetition, and a few messages that do not add to the discussion. (After sailing season is over, I may clean this discussion up.) However, if you read down to page 25 of 26 of the PDF, you will find a message from Zeke, dated 5/14/2010, in which he states that all new boats now include lifting bolts. I do not know if lifting bolts remained standard equipment once boat construction was transferred from Zeke to Chad. (I do not remember seeing lifting bolts in my boat, #2032, but I may have missed them. I will check tomorrow.)

Vic Roberts
#2032, Journey



-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:15 PM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176166814818$>>




Can anyone help me with sourcing lifting eye nuts for the lifting rods in Ensign Classic boats hull no.'s > 2000 ?

I remember a discussion in the old forum on the issues of using the rods in Pearson OEM hulls which were not suitable for lifting, but I believe the Ensign Classics are set up for the lifting eye nuts.

Any help would be appreciated.

James Bland
Ensign 2021, SPIRIT
Austin Yacht Club, Fleet 30
USNA class of '78

James,

I looked at my boat today and do not think I have lifting bolts, but I could be wrong. What I do have are two threaded rods, about 1 inch in diameter, sticking up about 3 inches near the front of the bilge. The two are side-by-side about 2 1/2 inches apart. I thought these might be a connection point for a lifting eye until I read Bill Murphey's article about adding lifting eyes that is posted on the ECA website. Bill talks about two eyes 16 inches apart, fore to aft, and he also mentions "Grind any remains of the original eye stub used to lay the keel." It's possible what I have are the remains of a device used to lay the keel, though it does not look like an eye stub. I'll get some photos on Wednesday, but a better answer will need the expertise of Bill, Zeke or Chad.

Regards,

Vic Roberts
#2032


-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 2:22 PM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: re: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176174753545$>>




James,

There are two places on the website where you can find a discussion of lifting eyes.

First, under Library --> Technical you will find a link titled: Lifting Eyes for Pearson Ensign, which opens an excellent article by Bill Murphey, but that is for older boats.

Second, under Library --> Boat Maintenance and Repairs I have just added the lifting eye discussion from the Ensign Sailors discussion group that you referred to. The link will open a PDF that has all 15 messages posted in that thread. These are unedited, and, therefore contain some repetition, and a few messages that do not add to the discussion. (After sailing season is over, I may clean this discussion up.) However, if you read down to page 25 of 26 of the PDF, you will find a message from Zeke, dated 5/14/2010, in which he states that all new boats now include lifting bolts. I do not know if lifting bolts remained standard equipment once boat construction was transferred from Zeke to Chad. (I do not remember seeing lifting bolts in my boat, #2032, but I may have missed them. I will check tomorrow.)

Vic Roberts
#2032, Journey



-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:15 PM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176166814818$>>




Can anyone help me with sourcing lifting eye nuts for the lifting rods in Ensign Classic boats hull no.'s > 2000 ?

I remember a discussion in the old forum on the issues of using the rods in Pearson OEM hulls which were not suitable for lifting, but I believe the Ensign Classics are set up for the lifting eye nuts.

Any help would be appreciated.

James Bland
Ensign 2021, SPIRIT
Austin Yacht Club, Fleet 30
USNA class of '78

Zeke,

Thanks! I don't need a lifting eye, so I was not going to do anything with those, but I was trying to help resolve this issue. When I first saw the two bolts I thought they could be a lifting system conveniently placed at the fore-aft balance point of the boat. Since neither is on the port-starboard centerline, I assumed a person would use both, perhaps with some sort of bridging device. The threads would, of course, have to be cleaned with a die, since they are covered with what looks like epoxy, or perhaps just paint. However, when I then read Bill's article about one fore and one aft, I doubted my original assumption. It’s nice to know I may have been (sort of) correct.

Vic Roberts
#2032



-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 7:55 AM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: re: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176341288361$>>




I wouldn't grind those bolts off if I were you. It not only would a lot of unnecessary work but those 2 bolts are your one point lifting system for the Ensign Classics. Some people pay up to 2500.00 to them added to older boats. All you do is attach a chain to either bolt and lift. But I would highly recommend anyone wanting to use these lifting points get some advice from the builder in how they are used properly before trying to lift your boat. Zeke


On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 15:38 Ensign Sailing Forum <ensignsailing@ensignclass.com> wrote:



James,

I looked at my boat today and do not think I have lifting bolts, but I could be wrong. What I do have arte two threaded rods, about 1 inch in diameter, sticking up about 3 inches near the front of the bilge. The two are side-by-side about 2 1/2 inches apart. I thought these might be a connection point for a lifting eye until I read Bill Murphey's article about adding lifting eyes that is posted on the ECA website. Bill talks about two eyes 16 inches apart, for to aft, and he also mentions "Grind any remains of the original eye stub used to lay the keel." It's possible what I have are the remains of a device used to lay the keel, though it does not look like an eye stub. I'll get some photos on Wednesday, but a better answer will need the expertise of Bill, Zeke or Chad.

Regards,

Vic Roberts
#2032


-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 2:22 PM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: re: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176174753545$>>




James,

There are two places on the website where you can find a discussion of lifting eyes.

First, under Library --> Technical you will find a link titled: Lifting Eyes for Pearson Ensign, which opens an excellent article by Bill Murphey, but that is for older boats.

Second, under Library --> Boat Maintenance and Repairs I have just added the lifting eye discussion from the Ensign Sailors discussion group that you referred to. The link will open a PDF that has all 15 messages posted in that thread. These are unedited, and, therefore contain some repetition, and a few messages that do not add to the discussion. (After sailing season is over, I may clean this discussion up.) However, if you read down to page 25 of 26 of the PDF, you will find a message from Zeke, dated 5/14/2010, in which he states that all new boats now include lifting bolts. I do not know if lifting bolts remained standard equipment once boat construction was transferred from Zeke to Chad. (I do not remember seeing lifting bolts in my boat, #2032, but I may have missed them. I will check tomorrow.)

Vic Roberts
#2032, Journey



-----Original Message-----
From: mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com [mailto:mailer@mail2.clubexpress.com] On Behalf Of Ensign Sailing Forum
Sent: Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:15 PM
To: vic@victorroberts.com
Subject: [Ensign Sailing] Lifting Eye Nuts / Lifting Rods on Ensign Classic hulls > #2000 <<$176166814818$>>




Can anyone help me with sourcing lifting eye nuts for the lifting rods in Ensign Classic boats hull no.'s > 2000 ?

I remember a discussion in the old forum on the issues of using the rods in Pearson OEM hulls which were not suitable for lifting, but I believe the Ensign Classics are set up for the lifting eye nuts.

Any help would be appreciated.

James Bland
Ensign 2021, SPIRIT
Austin Yacht Club, Fleet 30
USNA class of '78

Zeke,

I own Ensign Classic #2021, and have this thoughtful addition to the design.  There are two threaded rods protruding from the bilge at what I assume is close to the center of gravity.

!.  How would you recommend maintaining / preserving these rods and their threads.

2.  What kind of lifting nut or other appliance needs to be attached to these to make them a functional utility in the boat.  They are currently covered in duct tape.  I haven't measured them yet, but I'd guess they were around 3/4 inch in diameter.

3.  I'd assume a lifting bridle of  6000 # capacity with two lifting eyes [one attached to each rod] would be sufficient  with some steading lines to the stern cleats to maintain a slightly bow down attitude.

Your kind response would be appreciated.

James Bland
Ensign 2021, SPIRIT
Austin Yacht Club, Fleet 30
USNA class of '78

Vic asked me to check in a while ago. Better late than never.

So, first, I stand by my article in the Tech library. The bolts should be fore/aft to balance the boat. I recently made a Kevlar sling to replace the chains. It weighs 2lb. much nicer. One adjustment is that I have determined that most of the weight is on the front bolt. I should update the article to suggest putting the front bolt as far forward as you can get it to improve weight distribution. But the current location works.

Now to the bolts in the new Ensigns. The side by side bolt are Not in the right place. The caster messed up when he did not put them fore/aft. I do not know the process but Ensign Spars missed their opportunity to fix the problem while the lead was out of the boat. They should have drilled and inserted two correct bolts before they set the keel.

So I refer you back to my Tech article.

That said, several boats have threaded eyes onto the side by side bolts and used them. The trick is to use a slightly longer sling so the crane hook point is a little higher. Then tie a line from the sling eye to the mast and from the sling eye to a back cleat. These lines will provide a Little fore/aft stability. But the key to fore/aft stability is a bucket of water on the transom. as you lift the boat keep adding or removing water to keep the boat level. I have seen this done and with practice it is not too difficult.

Hopefully Ensign Spars will provide proper dimensions to the caster for any future keels.  

Bill Murphey
Chowder, #176
Fleet Captain
Fleet 63, Barnegat Bay, NJ